On the 3rd of March, I published this post “Need Sales Training, Let’s Sit Down and Talk About it”

It was a rough transcript of a phone call I took from an Irish Sales Director. He was inquiring about sales training for his sales team and insisting that I send him a proposal and price - he did not want to meet up. I refused as I didn’t feel that I was in a position to do so. He refused to accept my explanation - and the call ended somewhat badly.

In hindsight, I could have taken a differing approach, and perhaps drawn out the conversation more - but my instinct was telling me that I would be wasting my time.

This post has generated a lot of interest, critiques and debate; I am somewhat surprised - because it appears to have split some sales experts’ right down the middle. Some have strongly complimented me on my stance, where as others feel I lost potential business -because of my approach.

So what would you do in this same situation?

The prospect wants a proposal and price, before you have had a chance to investigate their needs. He/she is insisting that you do, and your competitors have willingly obliged. Remember, in not doing so – you probably lose any chance of making the sale.

Here are some of the comments that this post has generated.

Christian Maurer

“Good to read from a sales trainer that walks the talk”

Dave Stein

“Niall sets an example for sales trainers as well.  I commend him on his understanding of how sales performance improvement should be approached and his integrity for not folding, even with money on the table during these tough times”

David Stargel

“I’ve been through that conversation myself many times. I also will sometimes ask the potential client, “If this was your salesperson, would you want them to blindly respond to a price quote request without knowing anything about the customer at all?”

Tim Sullivan

“How would you like your own people to respond to a question like that from your potential customers? Just give a price, without really diagnosing their situation, goals and needs?” He got mad, and ended the call. Perhaps I was being too direct. I’m still struggling how best to answer these kinds of “price first” inquiries, before getting the necessary information. But we’d be doing the customer a disservice if we didn’t follow good business practices”

Anne Perret

“I take pretty much the same stance as you, stick to my guns and my proposition and am prepared to walk away. Strangely it’s a stance that is often successful”

Ian Brodie

“I’d agree with you generally - and certainly wouldn’t do a proposal without a clear, agreed understanding of what the customer needs (and I’d prefer not to do a proposal at all).However, I would consider giving the client a ballpark range for how much a 2-day course would cost if it turned out that that was what was needed. In this case I don’t think it would have made any difference. The guy seemed to view sales training as some sort of generic “magic sauce” you could sprinkle on your sales team to improve their performance without needing to tailor it to their needs”

Alecia Huck

“Again, given the different perspectives on what effective sales training is and how it should/can be delivered, it sounds like he wasn’t a good prospect anyway. In other situations however, DON’T DANCE AROUND PRICE. They have a right to ask and be answered and a good sales person can give them that answer. Use a range to weed out the wrong clients and help weed in the right ones”

Joanne Hernon

“This company may never be my clients but the good news is that I don’t want everyone to be my client. Seems weird to some to say that in this economy but I believe there is still enough business to go around. I want to work with the right clients for my business”

Steve Bent

“The proposition and sales close happen all at once, WAY too quick to get the customer’s buy-in to your process! As consultants my view is we sell in steps, gotta sell the meeting first! If I get in the door, I’m pretty confident it’s a done deal. BUT that means that the real selling part is getting in the door, so we gotta sell! That sales process is the same if you are selling a premium car, or the idea of a meeting - it’s all selling.

I aim to take control, and most importantly not deliver any idea of what I do (unless they ask “credential based” questions first, which occassionally happens. In which case I give background but don’t get drawn into how I work!) and then question, question question!

Obviously it gives call control, and I also find it’s hard for them to get away, maybe because at that stage they don’t want to: I haven’t said no, and actually demonstrating my interest in HIM”

Hank Trisler

“It’s far more important to help people behave as they don’t currently behave, than it is to teach them something they don’t currently know. If you’d like to chat about how we might accomplish that, I’d be happy to do so. If you’re afraid I’m going to “pitch” you and waste your time, I respect that, but I can’t really help you until we get to chat a bit”

Dave Kurlan

“Shouldn’t we be asking, “if I give you a proposal, without first meeting you and further exploring why your salespeople are struggling, then I am no better than the salespeople you have since that’s what they’re probably doing - generating quotes and proposals and wondering why they aren’t getting the business. Do you want to fix that problem or perpetuate it?”

Chris Howie

“Clearly he didn’t (at this stage!) want to spend a lot of time with each supplier, so why not have a conversation on the phone and then put together a ball-park figure? as I’m guessing he just wants to know if it is likely he will be able to afford you.

I think the key here is how the customer wants to do business and adapting your style to match theirs”

……………………………………….A BIG thank you to one and all for their input.

Over at TSE

Still time to register for tomorrow’s webinar over at Top Sales Experts:

How to Close More Sales by Shortening Your Sales Cycle with Dave Kurlan
Thursday May 21st 2009 1:00 PM EASTERN

It is just $59.50 to register here but of course, you have choices - you always have choices: You can become a TSE VIP Member here for just $25 per year and listen in for FREE - in fact, as a VIP Member you can listen in to the other 100 webinars we are presenting this year for FREE too - now that is a “No-brainer”

In case you haven’t been tuning in recently, the whole question of sales ineffectiveness was brilliantly raised by Dave Stein. It’s not just a great question for sales professionals; it’s frankly the ONLY question.

Dave rightly asks “The root causes of sales ineffectiveness are clear. There is plenty of sound advice about how to fix the problem. There is a proven path.  The answers are there for everyone to see. There are companies you can read about and observe that have achieved sales excellence.

So, recession aside, why is sales as a profession and function, losing ground?”

In three follow up posts, Sales Force Ineffectiveness, Conjecture of the Future of the Profession, parts one, two and three; Dave Brock does an excellent job in teasing out the issues.

In Part One, he talks about why “for too long, we have treated sales as a “black art”, that now “Customers can be more informed and less knowledgeable” and how “Consultative selling is difficult—it is disciplined, process based, and requires commitment and follow through on a sustained basis”.

In two, he observes that this is not just a sales problem” “Some of it is “business culture”—in general, some of it is “regional culture”—that is North American, European, Asian, and so forth. Some of it is “industry culture.”

Finally in part three, He resolves that these same difficulties also provide for “people who are or who are committed to becoming the highest levels of performance” - “opportunity for real progress and growth for sales professionals”.

He asks “how can we improve” “what can we do”. Dave believes that “each of us can take ownership in driving change”

“Whether you are a leader or individual contributor, becoming disciplined and process focused, committing to follow through on these, exploiting the tools produce results. Leverage these processes and tools, not because your management tells you to, but because they help you become more effective”

Collectively, these four posts are a MUST read, if you don’t have the time, MAKE the time – the reasons WHY are in the TEXT.

Now it’s not often, I take anything remotely resembled an issue with what Dave Brock says.

“To be honest—at least from an organizational point of view, I am tempted to point the finger at management—not just sales management, but corporate management”

Perhaps, it’s inexperience, or my youthful exuberance, but I am inclined to not just point my finger at senior management, but my entire hand, in fact right down to the tips of my toes. My entire being points in that general vicinity. Here why:

For too long, salespeople have been getting in the neck from management.

Yes, we may have a bad reputation and yes some of it may be deserved, buy ultimately the system is set up so that we always end up taking the heat. If the results don’t happen, who invariably gets the blame?

For years and years, salespeople get cast aside, replaced and cast aside again by companies. Rarely if ever, is it asked did this person get the right training? Did this person get the right support? And why did we hire this person again? Oh and by the way “who hired this person?

Dave says “I don’t believe change only comes from the top. I believe change comes from committed, passionate people at all levels of the organization” If a collective ownership of the result existed within organisations, I think Dave would be very right.

If some of the people entrusted with the sales leadership function in many organisations didn’t do their best to dodge and pass the buck, I think he would be right.

If salespeople weren’t forced to knock out huge numbers of calls and put in vast amounts of meaningless activities by ill-advised and badly trained sales mangers, I think he would be right.

If the wider business community and business leaders respected sales and salespeople, I think he would be right.

The point is this; the problem is in the way that the system is set up particularly with regards to responsibility. It makes it extremely difficult for salespeople to change the “science of selling” from within.

In my opinion, the buck stops and it STOPS squarely at the feet of some of our so called sales leaders.

In case, you missed my point - take a little inspiration from this recent article about HP

Carlsberg run a TV advertising campaign, based on always having more than 2 choices. The punch line, “there is always choice c”. Choice c, in this instance refers to some on the spot clever thinking - leaving the person in the ad with an out - from some kind of sticky situation.

When faced with the competitor question, a business or salesperson may believe they have 3 choices.

They can:

Join the Competition

Beat the Competition

Ignore the Competition

Why is it, that many continue to choose c?

Markets are smaller, competition is greater than ever, yet many companies and salespeople persist in choosing to operate “a head in the sand” approach - when dealing with competitors.

A Wake UP Call!!!. Competition is fierce and it’s not going to go away. There are only two real choices, because c is not a choice - It’s in-action and a non-decision.

Wait a minute, I hear you say “what about cutting prices”. Surely; this is an effective way to deal with competitors.

“NO, NO, NO, it’s not”. It’s taking choice C again. Here’s why, cutting prices may have a short-term impact. It will initially win you business. However, sooner rather than later, the competition will work out how to effectively deal with your price-cutting - or they will match it.

So around and around you will go, until you are right back where you started, only this time - you have created a whole new set of problems for yourself.

So here are the 2 real choices.

a. Join the competition through forming strategic alliances and partnerships.

or

b. Beat the competition through competitive positioning, developing a strategy for dealing with the competition question and using competitive selling skills effectively when selling.

When dealing with the competition.  Remember, there is only a and b…………there is no choice c.

In the News

Check out these four posts:

Dave Stein asks “How Do You Fix Sales Ineffectiveness?”in a brilliant post that’s generated lots and lots of debate. Dave says “There is a proven path.  The answers are there for everyone to see.   There are companies you can read about and observe that have achieved sales excellence. So, recession aside, why is sales as a profession and function, losing ground?”

Dave Brock investigates  and attempts to provide answers in his three posts ” Sales Force Ineffectiveness, Conjecture on the Future of the Profession Parts One Two & Three“

Over at TSE

On Tuesday, we will witness the launch of the new Top Sales Expert’s site - probably the most significant sales related site on the internet. To coincide with the re-launch, a new Executive Board has been formed to oversee the team, and a “working commitee” will also be appointed in the coming weeks.

Here is the new board.

Top row, left to right: Paul McCord, Jill Konrath, Jonathan Farrington, Colleen Francis, Keith Rosen and Joanne Black.

Bottom row: Wendy Weiss, Dr. Greg Stebbins, Nancy D. Solomon, Kevin Eikenberry, Linda Richardson and Kendra Lee.

Over at SLI (Sales Leadership Ireland)

Now 145 members and counting, To join click here.

Follow us on

Btb Guest Author

Christian Maurer

Yes, but not in the form we know and practice selling today. This is one of my takeaways from the round table discussion between Nigel Edelshain, Jonathan Farrington, Jill Konrath, Linda Richardson and Dave Stein over at the Top Sales Experts. Especially “order takers” and ‘glib talkers” will have a bleak future according to Jonathan Farrington. Intelligent strategic orchestrators and business advisors looking to develop long term allies however will have a bright future according to him. Jill Konrath seconded that she hopes that sales is really changing that much.

So we should expect a lot of organizational transformation within sales forces. However, and this is my second take away, the salespeople are not the primary target for this transformation. The sales profession -if we want to use this term despite the fact that from a scientific standpoint ’sales’ is not yet a profession- faces not only a leadership crisis but a disaster as Dave Stein put it.

The transformation has to start at the very top with company leaders. They should get rid of the myths that super salespersons make good sales managers and that the necessary competences come with the title. Sales Management is an occupation in itself requiring different specific skills than those of a sales superstar.

Relying just on tribal wisdom, where newly appointed sales managers draw on what they have observed their own managers doing, will not bring the desired result as it is very likely that these managers were not properly prepared for the job either. In addition their understanding of selling and of their job role might be outdated and not fit in today’s unforgiving economic context.

In my own opinion there will be no room left for purely action and result oriented managers trying to manage outcomes. It makes little difference if they rely on data from their own home grown spreadsheets or on sophisticated analytical CRM tools in their attempt to manage these outcomes. Outcomes are lagging indicators even if they come in the disguised form of forecasts. Management actions based on these metrics will always be too little too late. The future belongs to sales managers being able to interpret leading indicators helping them to derive coaching needs of their sales people.

The panelist were all in agreement that being able to coach people is a very essential skill for successful sales managers going forward.. There is however a huge skill gap with current sales managers. Linda Richardson’s re-edited book on this subject will help fill this gap. As a questions from a listener indicated, a significant number of sales managers has though not only a skill gap but an outright attitude problem towards coaching. Let’s hope for them that they can be convinced by appropriate business cases to avoid being phased out.

The dilemma for preparing sales managers for their job is though deeper. While a lot has been written with the salesperson in mind, there is a lack of a body of knowledge from which sale managers can be taught how to do their job. This is the reason why already three years ago, I started my blog with the sales executives and managers in mind.

Christian Maurer, The Sales Executive Resource, is an independent sales effectiveness consultant, trainer and coach. He has a proven track record of helping to increase the productivity of large, global B2B sales organizations. For the last ten years Christian has consulted and coached hundreds of sales executives and managers on how to plan and execute their sales strategies by focusing on process management rather than trying to manage results. Visit Christian ’s website: http://ultimatesalesexecresource

In the news

Dave Stein asks “How Do You Fix Sales Ineffectiveness?” This is a BIG BIG question and has already resulting in much debate. As Dave points out “There is a proven path.  The answers are there for everyone to see.  There are companies you can read about and observe that have achieved sales excellence. So, recession aside, why is sales as a profession and function, losing ground?” - I strongly suggest you check it out.

Clayton Shold is in conversation with fellow Top Sales Expert, Jonathan London over at Salesopedia, about the “Upside To Recession Selling”

Top 10 Sales Articles has just announced the “Top Sales Article Of The Month” for April. This a truly great sales resource with articles on every conceivable sales topic.

Over at TSE

The new Top Sales Experts (Public Group) over at LinkedIn is developing into a very lively community, with lots of really interesting discussions - to join us, simply click below.

Btb Guest Author

Jonathan Farrington

The responsibility for ensuring that every member of the sales team is successful and performing at optimum levels lies entirely with management and below are the eight reasons why sales people fail. In fact, I usually ask just three very straightforward questions, in order to identify why a salesperson is underachieving i.e.,

• Are they visiting/talking to enough clients/prospects? In other words are they pro-active and are their activity levels high?

• Are they talking to the right people within those client/prospect organizations? Are they able to penetrate the formal DMU (Decision Making Unit) and get to the MAN?

• Are they saying/doing the right things? This really means – how strong are their selling skills?

However this list, whilst not exhaustive, remains extremely accurate and as I said earlier, management has total control over each of these, including the last one!

1. Wrong or no selection process - The wrong person for the position

2. Wrong or no training - Insufficiently developed

3. Wrong or no planning - Expected to do all of their own planning

4. Wrong or no supervision – Left without competent supervision

5. Wrong or no motivation - Not properly motivated to meet objectives

6. Wrong or no stimulation – Not stimulated by appropriate incentives

7. Wrong or no evaluation – Not regularly appraised against a set of agreed objectives

8. Wrong or no executive action – Not adequately supported by a competent manager

If you are a sales manager, consider your part in this equation. According to these criteria, do you feel your current team poised for success? Hopefully you can say yes! If not, this list will hopefully draw attention to how you can help your team exercise their potential. Your wallet will also thank you!

Jonathan Farrington is a globally recognized business coach, mentor, author, and consultant, who has guided hundreds of companies and tens of thousands of individuals around the world towards optimum performance levels.  He has authored in excess of three hundred skills development programmes, designed a range of unique and innovative process tools and has been published extensively on a wide range of business topics including organizational and sales team development, leadership and the customer imperative.  Jonathan’s first book, “Tougher At The Top” will be published early in 2009.  Visit his website @ www.jonathanfarrington.com

In the News

It was my great pleasure to have dinner with Dave Stein, while he was over here as part of his work with DIT’s and Enterprise Ireland’s International Selling Programme. I am a big fan of Dave’s work and an avid reader of his blog. In a recent post “Ireland Knows How To Support Growing Companies“, Dave compliments Enterprise Ireland on the support they provide for start-ups and high-potential Irish companies - saying that the rest of the world can learn from Ireland in this regard.

I have spoken about Dave Brock on here before. Dave is the founder and CEO of Partners in EXCELLENCE, a leading international business consulting company. In my opinion, he is one of the most clued in consultants you will come across. He recently started a blog, and the quality of his posts has been exceptional. It came as no surprise, when he was named “Blogger of the Week” over at www.socialmediatoday.com

Over at TSE

I joined the other Top Sales Experts team for an conference call last Tuesday, there are some really great initiatives planned for 09 - WATCH THIS SPACE

Well, I think sales people don’t have a bad reputation. They are simply no more RELEVANT. Why? Read “death of a sales man”. No no no - I mean read it NOW - read it again - NOW. It will tell you WHY. If you don’t believe me - you don’t believe me like the main character in the plot didn’t listen to the youngsters who took over. Dave (Stein), you want to give them a “entirely different orientation” - wooo how cool is that. Terry, are you still hanging on to the old “solution selling stuff” from 30 years ago? Next comment may be about the “reference selling” method, or all the other good old ways of selling. Anybody up for the “killer instinct” Rarrrrrrr. How about the good schools from Miller Heiman…

Come on people what are you dreaming about at night? You are over fertilized and squeezed out people that try harder and harder to meet the commission, the forecast to walk through your “funnel” that is more like a “tunnel” with no light at the end. You get asked to work harder - you pull in more cold calls, you “align” you call centers… How about finding yet another more fine tuned sales methodology based on Yogi what’s his name. Don’t you realize that YOUR way of selling is DEAD

This is a comment by Axel Schultze from Dave Brock’s post “Why do Sales People have such a Bad Reputation?” on  The Customer Collective. This new type of pitch from a new type of salesperson refers to the role of social media tools in the B2B selling environment. Axel followed this up with his own post on this topic Death of a Salesman - Version 2009.

So REALLY, how effective are these new technologies in producing additional sales? and are they now, as has been claimed in some quarters already replacing established sales methodology and processes?

Well according to a new study by ES Research Group, Inc. (ESR), one of the leading research and advisory firms on sales effectiveness, social media tools such as Jigsaw, LinkedIn,Twitter, Plaxo, Facebook, Hoovers and OneSource may be useful for other purposes, but most of them aren’t helping sales teams close many B2B deals today. The survey was developed in cooperation with The TAS Group.

Based on a survey of nearly 400 sales professionals in the U.S., the report found that only LinkedIn (86%) and Hoovers/OneSource combined (61%) were used by more than half of respondents in their selling efforts. Facebook (50%), Plaxo (48%), Twitter (31%), and Jigsaw (26%) trailed in use.

Note: Hoovers and OneSource are separate companies but were combined for survey purposes because of their similar services.

Of respondents actually using the tools for sales, Hoovers and OneSource were the only tools helping more than half (54%) of them win B2B sales sometimes or often. LinkedIn was next at 42% and Jigsaw followed at 35%. Worst were Facebook (15%), Plaxo (13%) and Twitter (13%).

“The results demonstrate that with all the hype and buzz, most social network tools aren’t helping sales teams sell more yet,” Said Dave Stein, CEO and founder, ES Research Group. “For example, Twitter has not come into its own as a salesperson’s tool. It is presently a marketing tool that can potentially benefit the sales organization by contributing to the generation and nurturing of new sales leads. For now, the use of sales methodologies integrated with CRM systems and other sales enablement tools are proving far more successful in driving sales.”

Other key findings include the following:

• LinkedIn is clearly the favorite among B2B salespeople surveyed.
• The established for-pay information services (Hoover’s and OneSource) came in second.
• Free/low-cost information sharing services such as Jigsaw will rise in popularity over time.
• Twitter is an anomaly. It will have a high degree of uptake, but in a very narrow market. Marketing will find the tool much more valuable than sales for the foreseeable future. Presently it is not a valuable mainstream medium for B2B salespeople.
• For the time being, Facebook is best reserved for the personal and family sides of one’s life.

The ESR survey of sales representatives in a broad set of industries examined the prospecting process, the selling process, and the storage and retrieval of customer and prospect information.

No one doubts, the evolving role that social media technologies will play in the B2B selling environment, however the evidence clearly demonstrates that their present significance is no where near what some would have us believe. This is a topic of conversation that we will no doubt re-visit as the months and years go by. For now though, I applaud Dave and the ES research group for seeking out the facts of the matter, and for giving me the reassurance to continue to deliver the best advice for my customers and their sales people.

Buy the 10-page ESR/Insight™ Brief , The New Social Media: Do They Enable B2B Selling?

Over at Top Sales Experts,

Our Timetable for April includes:

First up in April is the inaugral TSE Roundtable- “The Future Of Professional Selling” featuring five of the world’s leading sales experts: Jill Konrath, Linda Richardson, Dave Stein, Nigel Edelshain, and Jonathan Farrington.

This an event you really should not miss out on - simply click on the banner below for full details and to book your place.

On April 16th, we launch the TSE Webinar Series, and I know that you are going to be very impressed with the line-up of almost FIFTY top sales gurus, who will be delivering top class presentations - simply click on the banner below to see the full schedule.

On April 21st, we launch “Sales Hardtalk” a daily dose of hard hitting advice, commentary and sales tips - easily downloadable and in bite size chunks, not to be missed.

Finally, at the end of April, the Top Sales Experts team will be launching their latest Ebook, packed with contributions from all of us - more details soon.

Btb Guest Author

Nigel Edelshain

The sky is falling.

Well, the stock market and many of the great behemoth financial firms that I have sold to over the last dozen years are. Let’s say many of us are not in the most upbeat mood right now.

And how does this “macro economic tension” tend to show up in sales organizations? Concern over making our numbers. And that concern over making numbers makes tense sales people. Tense sales people that tend to put too much pressure on their prospects to sign on the dotted line.

People love to buy but they hate to be sold. Sales cycles don’t really exist what really exists is a buying cycle. In our world of so many options for the buyer, we need to face facts that it’s the buyer who controls the “sales process” not the seller.

The sales person’s job (actually the whole company behind the sales person) is to be in-sync with buyer at whatever point the buyer is in the buying cycle. A typical buying cycle might look like this: (1)recognition of a need, (2) seek out options, (3) discuss/evaluate options and (4) buy.

A sales person who tries to close the buyer when they are not in phase 4 of the buying cycle will annoy the prospect/buyer and won’t get a deal. But that’s what “old school selling” tells us to do “always be closing”. Watch out because as the pressure mounts on us sales executives to close more the opposite is happening for the buyer. As the market fear grows buyers will be thinking “should I really pull the trigger on this spend or should I hold off”. The last thing that will help a cautious buyer commit is a pushy sales person!

What’s a sales person to do?

Calm down. Don’t try to close everything in sight. Stay in-sync with your prospects. Make sure you know where they are in the buying cycle. Act accordingly. If they are just starting to look at options, get them the information they need to understand and evaluate your offering.

And…prospect. Yes, whenever things get tougher in the economy sales people need to be able to put more leads into their sales funnel. You will need more prospects because either some deals will drop out due to budgets being cut etc. or some of the deals that survive will move more slowly to close than you originally thought.

You will need to “diversify” your sales pipeline as the market gets more volatile just as an investor diversifies their stock portfolio. You will want more prospects in your sales pipeline than when times were “easy”. Preferably prospects from lots of different companies and industries so your risks of being clobbered by any one company’s or any one industry’s budget cuts are reduced.

So as things get tougher don’t become a closer. Become an opener.

Nigel Edelshain - is CEO of Sales 2.0 Companies use Sales 2.0’s telesales and consulting services to take their sales to the next level, typically boosting results 3 - 10 times.

News

Fellow Top Sales Expert Diane Helbig is a contributing author to a brand new book “Chicken Soup For The Soul - Power Moms” it’s about women who sacrifice so much in order to balance their lives, whilst still pursuing their dreams. If you are looking for inspiration, this is a book you really must read - just click here to grab your copy.

Here’s is Diane’s recent interview on TSE Dailies. Listen by clicking on the banner below.

Social Media Wars?

I have recently been involved in some heated arguments over at The Customer Collective about the evolving role of social media in B2B sales.  Jonathan Farrington, Dave Stein, Dave Brock and I share a similar opinion as to how these tools will impact going forward. Last week, in a post by Jonathan, this dialogue took an unfortunate turn - with personal attacks by a few social media zealots.

Dave Stein writes about this is his post “The Social Media (Wars)” and in his blog, Dave Brock asks “Are the Right People Listening?”